Just reminder that the Promo issue doesn’t have to do with MaRo

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  1. gamblekat

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    I give Maro a lot of credit for being the one person in the company who engages with the community on negative issues, instead of just showing up to receive praise. Particularly when some people are so rude.

  2. Kyleometers

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    That man has the patience of a saint.

    I don’t know how he can handle reading these sorts of messages every day. Because he gets *thousands* of messages

  3. Johanson69

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    Ultimately, he [did answer]( the question though.

    My personal nitpick: I would like to be able to convince myself of their data analysis, but oh well.

  4. TheKingTing

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    Also a good reminder that you’re more likely to get what you want through civil discussion than angry criticism

  5. vinipc

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    MaRo is like the whole MtG community’s dad.

  6. Breakdawall

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    I’m just getting more and more sick of MTG players attitudes. The game isn’t toxic, some of the players are.

  7. Anastrace

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    Also, a reminder to everyone. If you disagree with someone, please do it civilly. Civility goes a lot further than anger, in terms of moving discussions and in getting things done. Remember the old saying, you catch more flies with honey, than vinegar. 🙂

  8. bestryanever

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    Just a reminder that MaRo put himself out there as the face and focal point for the community to reach out to with questions. People should feel free to ask him anything, he just may not choose to answer it.

  9. frogdude2004

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    I’m not sure why therandomvillain thinks he’s smarter than the marketing team of a million dollar company. They have far more data than they’re going to share, and surely they have a firm grasp what conclusions they can safely make from it. Bro thinks from one stat class that he’s smarter than people looking at things he can’t see…

    I’m surprised MaRo willingly puts himself out there like this. Internet plus attention really draws out some nasty people, I can’t imagine what he gets and doesn’t respond to.

  10. Ragnorock

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    Tagging /u/maro254 and /u/WOTC_CommunityTeam in hopes they will see this, it’s a request for more data and explanation in keeping with the promise to be more open about changes you make.

    **TL;DR: The analysis that has been provided is incomplete and doesn’t ask what the biggest drivers to a friendly play environment are. I hypothesize what those are likely to be from my own experience, and suggest that better promos, not worse, are what are needed to increase attendance and excitement around FNM. There are other, better ways to promote a friendly environment!**

    So I play almost every FNM at Mox Boarding House in Bellevue, which is one of the biggest and most competitive stores in the country. We regularly have pros, R&D members, and other WOTC employees in attendance that in the last year usually ranges from 20-60 for standard and 40-70 for modern. I’m a Spike-y brewer myself, and I care about winning, but the problem here is that so does everyone else, regardless of the store. I also happen to be a consulting data scientist, so I need more data to analyze and be on board with this change. The very obvious missing component in MaRo and WotC’s explanations is that it doesn’t go nearly far enough.

    Friendly play environment is the top correlated feature in the model they must have built predicting FNM attendance? Got it, makes perfect sense. How is a friendly play environment defined and what are the key features in determining a friendly play environment?

    My guess is that a friendly play environment is defined by

    “as a new or first time attendee, does my tournament experience include”

    * Judges and opponents who are conversational, forgiving when I make mistakes, and educational on areas of the game I may not know enough about
    * Store owners/staff who are honest and run a professional event, with reasonable prize structures and free of any bias or shenanigans favoring established customers, bonus points for identifying new players and offering them WotC provided starter materials
    * (This is certainly correlated to the above, but more to illustrate the point) disagreements that are handled in a fair and professional manner, injustice, perceived or otherwise, is probably the leading driver of a customer not wanting to return
    * A clean and comfortable play area with access to a good library of Magic related SKUs to encourage players to explore new formats and ways to play

    Where a friendly play environment is achieved when the above are upheld as much as possible.

    Nowhere in there is a requirement that the competitiveness or quality of the games played must be above or below a standard. At Mox, we have very casual players who whip up a deck out of their first fat pack or only play kitchen table, we have very young players with limited finances, we have Timmys, Johnnys, and a bunch of Vorthos mixed in for flavor. It’s not just Spikes. Just about everyone is friendly, and those who aren’t are the ones who get the cold shoulder.

    In fact, I’ve found just the opposite to be true. New and causal players get excited about valuable promos because it offers them the chance to win something valuable via the random prizes, or truly reward them for performing well. A couple of FNMs ago when Aether Hub was the promo, I was playing against not a new player, but one who had just moved to the area. It was clear that wherever they were playing, got the rules wrong relating to damage and blocking, and how combat currently functions. All three of these players had the same issue. She was piloting netdeck Mardu Vehicles and had me up against the ropes as mono W tokens. She had me dead if she just cast the Unlicensed Disintegration in her hand and then attacked, but instead waited until after blocks to cast it, resulting in significant explanation and giving me an extra turn to stabilize then win from a topdecked Ormendahl.

    Now, if what WotC’s argument is true, I would have taken my win and used the advantage toward claiming the valuable promo. But that’s not what happened. After explaining the issue and clearing up her misunderstanding of how combat works and calling a judge over to verify, we ended the game with me winning according to the rules. However, it’s FNM and I’ve been into this game since Urza’s Saga, so I know what it’s really about. I told her “You should have won that game and we both know it. I’m conceding to you, but don’t forget how combat works now. Game 2 let’s go.” I promptly overwhelmed her in game two, but she barely won a grindy game 3. I felt great about 4-0-ing that night with my then spicy list and after that ended up 2-2. I was a bit disappointed at the time, but I was good with my decision because I knew it was right. That series is the one I remember weeks later and I’m sure she does too.

    I reached out yesterday to WotC to offer my services in analyzing the data more because obviously we’re not going deep enough. In that offer I surmised that better promos, not worse are the answer. Most promos are so worthless now they get laughed at and nobody cares when they win the random. We should give people a reason to care about winning and leave the judges and store owners to manage how competitive the environment gets, reminding players that it’s REL 0 when necessary. Standard Showdown is going to be a failure because it conflicts with weekend sealed events, which stores need to move product, and everyone interested in standard just played the night before. I know I don’t have time to commit my weekends to that. It would be cool of those pretty foil lands were our new promos for FNM instead until you can do a better job picking playable cards to print as promos. *Hint Hint*

  11. MasterDave

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    Honestly the dude needs to stop what he’s doing with that blog, I think it does more harm than good in his unofficial mouthpiece for the whole company department.

    They could do a better job of having transparent legit feedback concerns being addressed on a regular basis by the people who are actually making those decisions but Rosewater has dick to do with Organized Play even though he’s been there for 20 years. Maybe a word from him might change someone’s mind, but I don’t believe he’s in charge of the Marketing department in any capacity and most of the people there would likely tell him to fuck off back to his development cave and let them actually promote the game.

    It’s sorta sad that people don’t understand he doesn’t represent all people and all things Magic, but it’s also sad that Wizards doesn’t see fit to provide honest and open feedback and discussion from the teams that actually affect the players. We’re three layers of separation away from the stuff he does and the stuff we do.

  12. ChikenBBQ

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    They really need another person to kind of take up a similar cowl tomorrow where people can voice their concerns to wotc about their customer rewards stuff. They are making decisions that we the player base don’t like, we’re gonna reach out to them. Unfortunately maros Tumblr is most people go to for communication with wotc. Not that it should be, but I mean he’s really good about replying and the simple act of replying is super good indicator that your message got to them. It’s just kind unfortunate that maro bares the brunt of everything.

  13. z11plus

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    I can’t remember a standard format in the past several years that I’ve found interesting. The amount of viable decks tends to just be too low for me to keep atennding FNM week after week, so I haven’t been to one for ages now.

  14. ersatz_cats

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    Good on MaRo for putting his foot down on the kind of tone he wants on his tumblr.

  15. reserved_list

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    I will be downvoted, but this sub would defend Maro if video surfaced of him pushing a toddler down a flight of stairs. The consensus here is that nothing WOTC decides to do that is negative ever has anything to do with Maro or his position of power, ever. And no I’m not saying everything is his fault, but the fanboyism surrounding him on this sub is nauseating.

  16. [deleted]

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm


  17. jRockMTG

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    I think he understands the demographics very well, the business caters to mtg specific behavior/economic types so well they even have players categorizing themselves based on what marketing has pushed. When you know the target it is easy to hit.

    Let’s face it, that question is classic mtg player method of communication, I bet MaRo’s checkmated these ppl so many times he just copy/pastes responses.

  18. gcsmith

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    I didn’t think anything was wrong with that question, if they’re going to fail at their job, they shouldn’t expect people to sit with a dictionary to word it as saintly as they want. Also, why bother answering if all he’s going to say “I’m not answering.”

  19. Anonymous

    July 18, 2017 at 6:27 pm

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